Charles David knows that the plastic waste crisis can’t be solved overnight—but solutions are possible if you are willing to put progress over perfection.
There is no silver bullet solution, and for a lot of people this can be overwhelming. But for me, it’s the opposite. We have the chance to zoom out and look at this situation and identify things one at a time that we can change.
Addressing the wicked problem of plastic waste isn’t for the faint of heart. There is no silver bullet solution and the complexity of the problem can make it hard to know where to begin. Lucky for Charles David Mathieu-Poulin, he finds complexity a highlight of the job. By solving one piece of the puzzle at a time, he’s confident that great progress can be made on the plastics crisis—you just have to start somewhere.
With an undergraduate degree in environmental science from McGill, and a master’s degree from École de Technologie Supérieure in Montréal, he has a handle on both the theoretical and tangible aspects of sustainability (he can talk polymers or policy reform depending on the scenario).
In his current role as the Lead, Office of the CEO, Strategic Projects and Governmental Relations at Éco Entreprises Québec, he works on special projects and acts as a liaison to governments and external groups like the Canada Plastics Pact and the Circular Plastics Taskforce—the latter of which he is a strategic advisor and spokesperson.
We spoke with Charles David about working with companies to show them that collaboration can co-exist with competition, the importance of citizens’ participation in the recycling system (hot tip: moose carcasses can’t be recycled), and how imagining a perfect system is a great way to make progress on the challenge of recycling flexible plastics. It has been edited for clarity and length.
Generate Canada: You kicked off your career in the paper printing and packaging sector. When working in this industry, did you find you had to advocate for sustainability initiatives or was there already an appetite to do this kind of work?
Charles David Mathieu-Poulin: My first role out of grad school was at TC Transcontinental—Canada’s biggest paper printer and a North American leader in flexible packaging. I spent 11 years there working on sustainability initiatives in various roles.
I started by introducing sustainable processes within the manufacturing plants—making sure they were following environmental regulations, making the best procurement choices and following certifications. Then, the role quickly grew to involve a much more strategic approach to sustainability. I therefore witnessed firsthand the shift to where sustainability evolved from being the right thing to do, to actually becoming a selling point for customers and employees.
During my time at Transcontinental, it was really great to see how sustainability initiatives grew. The company was able to see the value in standing out as a Canadian leader in sustainable packaging. While I was there we managed to be in the top 100 sustainable companies in the world and became the first Canadian manufacturer signatory of the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, which really showed a commitment to sustainability. It was a great experience to be part of a company willing to commit to these things.
Sustainability is a relatively young industry so it is funny to think of myself as an OG when I’m not that old. But it’s been so exciting to be part of an industry that has grown so fast and I feel lucky to have had a role in building it and being part of it from the start.
GC: Can you tell me about your involvement in solving the plastics challenge, notably with the Circular Plastics Taskforce and the Canada Plastics Pact?
CDMP: It has been funny to see how things shift over time. When I first started in the paper industry, paper was getting a lot of negative attention-–people didn’t like the idea of cutting trees down and the public wanted to move away from paper. Then, plastic packaging arrived and everyone said “let’s move back to paper!”. These things go in cycles and brands are under a lot of pressure from their stakeholders to do the right thing and be sustainable, so it is something that is always evolving.
It is in this context that the Circular Plastics Taskforce (CPT) was started in February 2020. A group of us were regularly meeting at various sustainability events in Québec and quickly realized we were all working individually on solving the same problems around plastic recycling. We felt we would be stronger together, and decided to join forces. With the CPT, we wanted to ask what problems the industry needs to find solutions for, and then find the partners and funding to conduct research and start pilot projects. We’ve for example done some work around recycling flexible plastics that we were able to push forward because of the sharp focus and small size of this group.
A few months later in 2021, the Canada Plastics Pact (CPP) started and it was clear that it was necessary to join if you wanted to be part of the right conversations. The CPP believes (and I strongly agree!) in collaboration and putting all stakeholders around the same table, whether you are a packaging manufacturer with your own objectives or an NGO (which oftentimes can have opposite objectives).
It was really exciting to see a place where everyone’s point of view was included and where everyone could work toward common goals. CPP is good at reminding everyone that we are all aiming for the same things–there are just different ways of getting there. CPP also brings this long-term vision with its roadmaps, which is a really important element in this work.
Having the CPP and the CPT working alongside each other is really great—there is a lot of collaboration and goodwill. Both projects are quite complimentary: while the CPP is doing big systems level work, the CPT is a smaller, more nimble group that can move on more focused projects quickly.
Working with these groups is so much fun. We all have full-time roles but the CPT team makes room for this work because we believe so much in what we are doing and get such a good reaction from people. The more we are involved in each other’s work, the better information and insights travel.
GC: What barriers have you come up against in your work and what motivates you to overcome them?
CDMP: Often we hear “let’s collaborate” and it is obviously an important part of our work. We have been hearing this for 10 years, but we can’t just say this at a meeting and then go back to our desks and then three months later get together and say “let’s collaborate” again. We need to make sure that work is happening in between these meetings and that’s one of the reasons that we started CPT—to put things into action.
The moment we hear that a few different people or organizations are having the same issue, the CPT brings them together and figures out how to get a project funded and off the ground. It’s really hard for people to have the time and energy to get these things off the ground themselves with everything else they are working on.
Another barrier I see is that it takes such a big commitment from individual companies to put resources toward sustainability. I think companies can be hesitant around spending time and resources on a project, the results of which could be shared with everyone in their industry, including their competition.
I talk to people doing similar work in the U.S. and they can’t believe that these groups are bringing people together who would normally be seen as competitors. They ask if there’s a lot of jealousy and we’re like “hell, no”! We are all reaching for the same goals and we can only get there if we do it together.
That’s why groups like the CPP are so valuable because they help everyone realize, we’re either going to succeed together or fail together. For example, if plastic becomes a thing that nobody wants to use anymore, all these companies and their competitors will crash at the same time. Helping companies and organizations see that this is so much bigger than competition is something that needs to be constantly addressed.
There is no silver bullet solution, and for a lot of people this can be overwhelming. But for me, it’s the opposite. We have the chance to zoom out and look at this situation and identify things one at a time that we can change.
I talk to people doing similar work in the U.S. and they can’t believe that these groups are bringing people together who would normally be seen as competitors. They ask if there’s a lot of jealousy and we’re like “hell, no”!
We are all reaching for the same goals and we can only get there if we do it together.
GC: What do you wish more folks understood about recycling plastics in Canada?
CDMP: I would want people to understand that recycling exists and it works. I still hear a lot of people say they won’t put stuff in the recycling bin because they think it’s just going to end up in the garbage anyways. This isn’t true.
On the flip-side, there are people who think that whatever they put in the recycling bin will be recycled, and that’s not true either.
There are a lot of smart people working on recycling—plastic recycling in particular—and while the system isn’t perfect, it does work and there are many processes in play now that are currently working.
The recycling system is so complex, but there is still so much that we manage to recycle—we just want even more to be recycled. As citizens, we play a big role in helping this system work—we have to put the things in the bin or there isn’t a chance they will be recycled.
I honestly believe people’s perspectives would change if they went to their local sorting centre. You get to see the sheer amount of material that is processed and also realize the amount of material that shouldn’t be there. We get things like bowling balls, moose carcasses, dirty diapers—it is incredible the things that we see people put into our recycling system.
If 15-20% of material there consists of items that should not have been put in the bin, this takes a lot of time and energy to sort—time and energy that could be used elsewhere to improve the process.
It can also be really eye-opening to see the level of technology being used in these facilities–AI, robotics. And while technological innovation is amazing and developing quickly, it is also our job at Éco Entreprises Québec to advance other kinds of innovation, like trying different approaches to communicating with the public and educating them more on the recycling process.
We are all so busy and have so much going on, we need to find ways to simplify the role of the citizen in this process and ask ourselves what we could be doing better.
GC: Can you tell me about a success or moment where you realized your work is making a meaningful impact?
CDMP: One of my biggest focus at both the Circular Plastics Taskforce and the CPP has been flexible packaging.
With a few other key partners, the CPP and CPT started a project called PRFLEX where our goal was to reimagine what it would be like if we had to rebuild the system for flexible packaging–what would it look like to make a perfect system? Then we took the learnings from that exercise and applied it to reality. Obviously the ‘perfect system’ couldn’t be applied everywhere in our current context but so many things came out of this process that were enormously helpful.
We wrote a white paper that people are still reaching out to me about. I was at an event in Washington and Americans in the recycling space were asking me to share our learnings there—this kind of research hadn’t been done elsewhere.
We have yet to see the full implications of this research, but it is a great example of bringing people together who have differing viewpoints to figuring out what our next steps can be.
Flexibles are probably the biggest challenge in the plastic industry right now, so being a part of a group that’s trying to tackle the issues and getting great feedback is something that I feel proud of.
This project didn’t take multiple years or cost millions of dollars or try to solve everything at once. By breaking off a small piece of the puzzle, it was possible for a small group of people to actually do something quickly and do it well.
There is no silver bullet solution, and for a lot of people this can be overwhelming. But for me, it’s the opposite. We have the chance to zoom out and look at this situation and identify things one at a time that we can change.
There is something about the complexity of these challenges that motivates me—it’s kind of like figuring out a puzzle in my head.
GC: If you could provide a piece of advice to those pursuing a similar career path to you, what might you say?
CDMP: In the sustainability field, I think it’s less common to follow a traditional path. With the industry being relatively new, it is more necessary to build your own path, which can be fun but also a little overwhelming.
You know in an interview they ask you where you see yourself in five years? I always felt like I could never answer that question! I always looked around for opportunities to try new things and expand into areas that aligned with what I was interested in and what I was good at. Whether that was governmental relations, being a spokesperson, joining boards—the more people I met and projects I worked on, the further I went.
My advice would be to create a big network and whenever you have an opportunity, just go for it–it might bring you somewhere you didn’t expect. This means you are creating your own path, which is scary but it’s also fun. If I were to be asked the five-year question now, I would say I want to do something I love where I can keep learning, help people and be in line with my values. What will it look like exactly? I’m not sure!
GC: Anything you are reading/listening to right now that you’d recommend?
CDMP: I was recently on a vacation where I read a book called Playground by Richard Powers. One of the main characters is French Canadian, so right away I was interested! But ended up drawing me in with so much more.
It’s a reflection on our relationship with nature and how it has changed as technologies have evolved. It tells the story of a small island in the Pacific that has to choose between protecting nature and development and innovation. It had me reflecting a lot on exactly where we are going, notably with AI and what it can bring that’s positive, but also the impacts it could have.
Learn more about Éco Entreprises Québec, Canada Plastics Pact, and the Circular Plastics Taskforce.
I talk to people doing similar work in the U.S. and they can’t believe that these groups are bringing people together who would normally be seen as competitors. They ask if there’s a lot of jealousy and we’re like “hell, no”!
We are all reaching for the same goals and we can only get there if we do it together.
